No one did.  Was answering those philosophical questions virtually as you
proposed them.
dr

> From: Phil Lord <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: "A LISTSERV list for discussions pertaining to New York State
> history." <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:25:20 -0500
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Cross post from a hard-copy discarder
>
> Apprently one cannot be a devil's advocate in the virtual world? I posed a
> philosophical question, not my own opinions. Please don't attach me to the
> ideas I put out there for discussion, which reflect some in the geenral
> community of preaervationists and librarians.
>
>
> Philip Lord, Jr.
> Director, Division of Museum Services
> New York State Museum
> Albany, NY
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> Website: http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/services.html
>
>>>> [log in to unmask] 12/05/00 10:46AM >>>
>> From: Phil Lord <[log in to unmask]>
>> Reply-To: "A LISTSERV list for discussions pertaining to New York State
>> history." <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:17:13 -0500
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Cross post from a hard-copy discarder
>>
>> This discussion thread is dancing around a central issue of why save anything
>> original if the ultimate purpose is to preserve information and there are new
>> technologically sophisticated alternatives? (I admit I am throwing gasoline
>> on
>> the fire on purpose.)
>>
>> There are two issues: preservation and access. Microfilming was originally
>> designed to accomplish improvements in both areas. What was it that
>> researchers needed from the original unstable paper that could not be had on
>> microfilm (leaving aside manuscripts that could not be accurately copied due
>> to color, etc.)?
>
> good quality repro of images?
>>
>> And this applies not only to paper goods. Archeologists often record and
>> discard materials that can provide no more data than the report already
>> captures. With modern 3-D renderings and full color scanners, and CD-ROMS we
>> seem sometime to be able to capture more data than the item originally had!
>
> Part of that reason is the lack of storage space and preservation techniques
> too Phil - just like the newspapers.  Didn't Ritchie and Funk keep
> everything?
>
>>
>> And when it comes to mass produced materials (newspapers, coins, nails), so
>> long as someone has a sample, does everyone need them all? (I am definitely
>> being a devil's advocate here.)
>
> Then why save more than one representative of a greek revival building, or,
> to continue, why dig up more than one archaic site?  I think part of the
> argument that as in coins, a mis-strike is considered more valuable and can
> explain elements of the equipment that made them. Could you not make a wrong
> assumption of when a building was built by not looking at all the nails of a
> site rather than a small sample?  If you saved one round nail but there were
> millions of hand forged, would you not come to the wrong conclusion about
> the construction date of the site?  (all just for arguments sake of course
> :)  If you were studying the evolution of newspaper, the actual paper, seems
> like it might be nice to have samples of paper to analyze?
>
>>
>> A few years ago I was part of a debate with a treasure salvor who argued that
>> if the State kept one of each type of the thousands of coins on this
>> shipwreck, which all were minted at the same time, was that not good enough,
>> since we could photograph and record in the finest detail each of the
>> identical coins we would later turn over to the salvor and the marketplace.
>> (Of course we never considered that a valid argument and concluded the entire
>> collection was valuable and needed to be kept intact for future research
>> purposes, at which point the treasure hunters lost interest.)
>>
>> While the stories of how repositories are dealing with surplus newspapers is
>> interesting, I would love to see a down and dirty debate about the values and
>> norms that lie behind the urge to preserve these collections, even when
>> "virtual" versions of them are readily available.
>>
>> It may get metaphysical, but do we dare take off the blinders and examine our
>> own culture of collections management, just to see where it goes?
>>
>> Philip Lord, Jr.
>> Director, Division of Museum Services
>> New York State Museum
>> Albany, NY
>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>> Website: http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/services.html
>>
>>>>> [log in to unmask] 11/30/00 10:31AM >>>
>> I only wish other public libraries were as on the ball as Bob's.  They
>> really do have a great collection and knowledge of what needs to be done.
>> But maybe that really is what it comes down to in reality - the staff?  If
>> you have a good group of people who really understand the needs of the
>> material and don't look at their weekly tenure just as a "job," the
>> situation would be quite different.
>>
>> In one situation at a local library I am familiar with, there was really no
>> need to dump the newspapers.  They did not have a large collection and it
>> wasn't taking up that much room.  They just felt that it was time to get rid
>> of those dusty old crumbling newspapers that were making some of the staff
>> sneeze!
>>
>> I wonder if this is the kind of project that corporate donors could get
>> involved in?  I can see IBM or GE financing a historic newspaper repository,
>> no? They could use some good PR :)
>>
>> On the other hand I am not comfortable with some old wareshouse being the
>> repository unless it was up to code, had the latest environmental regulation
>> system, and a great sprinkler system.
>> dr
>>
>>> From: Robert Sullivan <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Reply-To: "A LISTSERV list for discussions pertaining to New York State
>>> history." <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:38:01 -0500
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: Cross post from a hard-copy discarder
>>>
>>>> Maybe this was discussed already, but has anyone or could a group send out
>>>> a
>>>> notice to local libraries and holding institutions as to the importance of
>>>> holding printed volumes, even if they are microfilmed, and that some other
>>>> repository would take them?
>>>
>>> This is what it all comes down to, isn't it?
>>>
>>> I'm happy to say that my library has a good collection of newspaper volumes
>>> (inherited from another library, I believe) and other historical material.
>>> When we had a roof leak this past summer, I rescued them from the flood.
>>> Don's
>>> seen some of my digitizing projects and we share an interest in saving this
>>> sort of thing and making it available online.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, we're in a space crunch and everything is being examined
>>> with a critical eye as we prepare for a major reorganization of our
>>> building.
>>> There's no way we could absorb someone else's collection.  The local
>>> historical
>>> society has a wonderful library, but they also have space constraints.
>>>
>>> It's probably safe to say that this would apply to most public libraries....
>>> maybe the new Broome County Public Library would be an exception, as they
>>> will
>>> be allied with the local historian and possibly another office.
>>>
>>> So - if I know of a large collection of documents which will be discarded
>>> after
>>> microfilming and I'd like to preserve them, what are my options?
>>>
>>> Bob Sullivan                               [log in to unmask]
>>> Schenectady County Public Library (NY)     http://www.scpl.org
>>>
>>
>