No one did. Was answering those philosophical questions virtually as you proposed them. dr > From: Phil Lord <[log in to unmask]> > Reply-To: "A LISTSERV list for discussions pertaining to New York State > history." <[log in to unmask]> > Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 10:25:20 -0500 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Cross post from a hard-copy discarder > > Apprently one cannot be a devil's advocate in the virtual world? I posed a > philosophical question, not my own opinions. Please don't attach me to the > ideas I put out there for discussion, which reflect some in the geenral > community of preaervationists and librarians. > > > Philip Lord, Jr. > Director, Division of Museum Services > New York State Museum > Albany, NY > E-mail: [log in to unmask] > Website: http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/services.html > >>>> [log in to unmask] 12/05/00 10:46AM >>> >> From: Phil Lord <[log in to unmask]> >> Reply-To: "A LISTSERV list for discussions pertaining to New York State >> history." <[log in to unmask]> >> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:17:13 -0500 >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: Cross post from a hard-copy discarder >> >> This discussion thread is dancing around a central issue of why save anything >> original if the ultimate purpose is to preserve information and there are new >> technologically sophisticated alternatives? (I admit I am throwing gasoline >> on >> the fire on purpose.) >> >> There are two issues: preservation and access. Microfilming was originally >> designed to accomplish improvements in both areas. What was it that >> researchers needed from the original unstable paper that could not be had on >> microfilm (leaving aside manuscripts that could not be accurately copied due >> to color, etc.)? > > good quality repro of images? >> >> And this applies not only to paper goods. Archeologists often record and >> discard materials that can provide no more data than the report already >> captures. With modern 3-D renderings and full color scanners, and CD-ROMS we >> seem sometime to be able to capture more data than the item originally had! > > Part of that reason is the lack of storage space and preservation techniques > too Phil - just like the newspapers. Didn't Ritchie and Funk keep > everything? > >> >> And when it comes to mass produced materials (newspapers, coins, nails), so >> long as someone has a sample, does everyone need them all? (I am definitely >> being a devil's advocate here.) > > Then why save more than one representative of a greek revival building, or, > to continue, why dig up more than one archaic site? I think part of the > argument that as in coins, a mis-strike is considered more valuable and can > explain elements of the equipment that made them. Could you not make a wrong > assumption of when a building was built by not looking at all the nails of a > site rather than a small sample? If you saved one round nail but there were > millions of hand forged, would you not come to the wrong conclusion about > the construction date of the site? (all just for arguments sake of course > :) If you were studying the evolution of newspaper, the actual paper, seems > like it might be nice to have samples of paper to analyze? > >> >> A few years ago I was part of a debate with a treasure salvor who argued that >> if the State kept one of each type of the thousands of coins on this >> shipwreck, which all were minted at the same time, was that not good enough, >> since we could photograph and record in the finest detail each of the >> identical coins we would later turn over to the salvor and the marketplace. >> (Of course we never considered that a valid argument and concluded the entire >> collection was valuable and needed to be kept intact for future research >> purposes, at which point the treasure hunters lost interest.) >> >> While the stories of how repositories are dealing with surplus newspapers is >> interesting, I would love to see a down and dirty debate about the values and >> norms that lie behind the urge to preserve these collections, even when >> "virtual" versions of them are readily available. >> >> It may get metaphysical, but do we dare take off the blinders and examine our >> own culture of collections management, just to see where it goes? >> >> Philip Lord, Jr. >> Director, Division of Museum Services >> New York State Museum >> Albany, NY >> E-mail: [log in to unmask] >> Website: http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/services.html >> >>>>> [log in to unmask] 11/30/00 10:31AM >>> >> I only wish other public libraries were as on the ball as Bob's. They >> really do have a great collection and knowledge of what needs to be done. >> But maybe that really is what it comes down to in reality - the staff? If >> you have a good group of people who really understand the needs of the >> material and don't look at their weekly tenure just as a "job," the >> situation would be quite different. >> >> In one situation at a local library I am familiar with, there was really no >> need to dump the newspapers. They did not have a large collection and it >> wasn't taking up that much room. They just felt that it was time to get rid >> of those dusty old crumbling newspapers that were making some of the staff >> sneeze! >> >> I wonder if this is the kind of project that corporate donors could get >> involved in? I can see IBM or GE financing a historic newspaper repository, >> no? They could use some good PR :) >> >> On the other hand I am not comfortable with some old wareshouse being the >> repository unless it was up to code, had the latest environmental regulation >> system, and a great sprinkler system. >> dr >> >>> From: Robert Sullivan <[log in to unmask]> >>> Reply-To: "A LISTSERV list for discussions pertaining to New York State >>> history." <[log in to unmask]> >>> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 19:38:01 -0500 >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: Cross post from a hard-copy discarder >>> >>>> Maybe this was discussed already, but has anyone or could a group send out >>>> a >>>> notice to local libraries and holding institutions as to the importance of >>>> holding printed volumes, even if they are microfilmed, and that some other >>>> repository would take them? >>> >>> This is what it all comes down to, isn't it? >>> >>> I'm happy to say that my library has a good collection of newspaper volumes >>> (inherited from another library, I believe) and other historical material. >>> When we had a roof leak this past summer, I rescued them from the flood. >>> Don's >>> seen some of my digitizing projects and we share an interest in saving this >>> sort of thing and making it available online. >>> >>> On the other hand, we're in a space crunch and everything is being examined >>> with a critical eye as we prepare for a major reorganization of our >>> building. >>> There's no way we could absorb someone else's collection. The local >>> historical >>> society has a wonderful library, but they also have space constraints. >>> >>> It's probably safe to say that this would apply to most public libraries.... >>> maybe the new Broome County Public Library would be an exception, as they >>> will >>> be allied with the local historian and possibly another office. >>> >>> So - if I know of a large collection of documents which will be discarded >>> after >>> microfilming and I'd like to preserve them, what are my options? >>> >>> Bob Sullivan [log in to unmask] >>> Schenectady County Public Library (NY) http://www.scpl.org >>> >> >