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Subject: Conference on New York State History
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:12:25 EDT
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From: "Stefan Bielinski" <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Conference on New York State History - last call!
Walk-in Registrations welcome!
Conference on New York State History
June 7-8, 1996
The 1996 conference at SUNY New Paltz features eleven
presentation panels and a keynote address. Session titles
are:
Friday, June 7:
Survivors: Women in the 18th Century
Cultures of Depression-Era Ideologies
Economics of Community Founding
Identity and Work: New York Labor Activists
Advancing State Control over Local Schooling
Political Unrest in 19th Century New York City
Doctrines & Deviants: Church Discipline in NYS
Alexander C. Flick Lecture in New York State History
The Piano Makers: Labor Relations at Steinway & Sons
Richard K. Lieberman, La Guardia and Wagner Archives, CUNY
Saturday, June 8:
Settlement of the Hudson Valley and the Catskills
Men's Work in Imperial New York
The Founding Fathers at Odds
Memorializing and Demonizing (monuments and revisionism)
All historians of New York are most welcome!
For a conference flyer, program information, registration,
transportation, and lodging information contact Stefan Bielinski at
(518) 474-6917 (leave message); or [log in to unmask]
History publishers and historical organizations will
sponsor informational exhibits.
In addition, our New Paltz hosts have arranged pre and post-
conference activities that will provide additional social and
intellectual opportunities.
From [log in to unmask] Wed Jun 5 23:36:15 1996
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From: [log in to unmask] (Vivian Karen Bush)
Subject: Alkato Co., NY??
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A patron in the FHC today had a 1930 Michigan obituary which gave a birth
place as Alkato County, New York (1842). I suspect that Alkato is really a
town or village but cannot find it in my gazetteer and home. Has anyone
heard of it?
Karen Bush
PO Box 1393
Page, AZ 86040
[log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]
*HICKMAN* *BAILEY* *PERKINS* *CRABB* *ROGERS* *LAUB* *McGINNIS* *FRAZIER*
*CLAPP* *HAWES* *BENNETT* *DARNLEY* *WARREN* *TURNER* *LIVINGSTON* *GEE*
*SEARL* *ALEXANDER* *ANDREWS* *LYON* *RICKER* *FRANCISCO or CISCO*
*DOUGLASS* *HARRIS* *LUDDINGTON* *BUSH* *THORNE* *MOYES* *EVANS*
*ARMITSTEAD* *CLARK* *DANIELS* *ISBELL* *ADAMS* *STANTON* *EWERS*
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 10:20:45 1996
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:19:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Beth Harpaz <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi. I'm a reporter for The Associated Press in New York City. I am
writing a story about the Battle of Brooklyn (1776), focusing on the
question of why it virtually disappeared from popular histories of the
American Revolution and our collective lore about colonial times, as well
as how history gets written -- why some things are left out and other
things
are emphasized. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with theories on
this...
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 11:49:37 1996
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Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 11:45:09 EDT
From: "Robert E. Wright" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: TEMPLE UNIVERSITY
Subject: Re: Your mail
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In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 6 Jun 1996 10:19:53 -0400 (EDT) from
<[log in to unmask]>
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I think it is because "history" is bifurcated. On the one hand you have
professional historians who rarely survey new primary materials because
they are too busy putting new "spins" or "twists" or interpretations on
well known events. On the other hand there are many people deeply
involved in little used primary sources but who do not know about
historiographical issues. These tend to be family and military historians,
county historians etc. They often know a great deal about particular places,
persons, and events, but can't/don't link them to larger issues. Professional
historians ignore them because these nitty gritty historians are not published
in the normal channels and don't usually have fancy degrees. Also, professional
historians tend to be rather pressed for time and don't give the county
historians + c. enough credit. Professional historians usually need
the significance of "minor" events etc. spelled out to them in excruciating
detail before the meaning/importance sinks in. Few even try to bridge this
gap between the new primary and the ideological/historical debates and
even fewer do it well.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| |
| Robert E. Wright [log in to unmask] |
| Biographical Dictionary http:/www.temple.edu/departments/history/|
| Temple University 215-204-3406 |
| |
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 13:05:14 1996
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:07:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: philip terrie <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: philip terrie <[log in to unmask]>
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I feel the need to express my disagreement with Robert E. Wright's
characterization of people he calls "professional historians," who, he
avers, rarely conduct research in primary materials and rarely examine
micro-events. Let's take a look at the books sitting on my desk right
now. I see excellent books written by professional, academic historians,
all manifesting the highest order of scrupulous research in primary
materials: Cronon, Changes in the Land; Boyer and Nissenbaum, Salem
Possessed; Lears, Fables of Abundance; Crosby, Ecological Imperialism;
Runte, National Parks. That's just a sample. As you can see, the books
closest to hand are mostly in environmental history, but I am quite
certain that one could very quickly adduce a similar list for any other
field. Some of the most interesting work in the last decade or so, largely
inspired by New England town studies, has involved meticulous examination
of local records, just the sort of materials Robert Wright says have
remained the province of county historians. I don't know why the Battle
of Brooklyn has been underplayed in the historical literature, but I don't
think it helps to generalize about professional historians in the way that
Robert Wright has.
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 13:50:13 1996
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 13:52:48 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
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Subject: Chrysler Farm
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Could someone please tell me who I would contact to get some pamplets, info.
, etc... on the CHRYSLER Farm battle in N.Y. ???? I have tried several
phone numbers of parks dept. etc.. but noone has ever heard of the place,
Thanks,
Vicki
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 14:08:50 1996
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From: Bill Evans <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Chrysler Farm -Reply
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Vicki - Chrysler Farm is in Canada. Maybe we can elicit a
response from one of our Canadians or Dennis Lewis as to the
details.
Bill Evans
(Has to do with New York's "war" ;))
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 15:53:54 1996
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Vicki, You might try contacting the following. The Canadian's also tend to
spell it Crysler rather then Chrysler.
Upper Canada Village
R.R. No. 1
Morrisburg, Ontario, Canada K0C 1X0
The Battle of Crysler's Farm Memorial is located at Upper Canada Village. The
original site was flooded in the 1950's by the Saint Lawrence Seaway Project.
For a good account of the Battle of Crysler's Farm I would suggest "The War
of 1812: Land Operations" , George F.G. Stanley, Macmillan of Canada, 1983,
ISBN 0-7715-9859-9. At one time the St. Lawrence Parks Commission, the
operators of Upper Canada Village, also had a small booklet entitled "The Day
of Crysler's Farm: November 11, 1813" by Ronald L. Way. Their office address
is:
The St. Lawrence Parks Commission
Morrisburg, Ontario, Canada
You might also try the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa. They may have Stanley's
book in their gift shop.
A note regarding the veterans of Crysler's Farm. In 1847 the British
government established the Military General Service Medal and presented it to
the surviving veterans of the War of 1812 battles in Canada. A total of 911
were issued, 148 for Crysler's Farm, with several others having the
Chrysler's Farm Bar added to their medal ribbon which they had received for
service at other locations.
Hope this is of some help. Dennis Lewis
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 16:33:45 1996
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:40:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rothenberg <[log in to unmask]>
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To: Beth Harpaz
It's just an overall impression, but I suspect that the Battle of
Brooklyn is "neglected", as it's a big one that the U.S. lost. We'd much
rather celebrate a major (or even minor) victory, than a defeat (much less
a major one). Had the British won the war, it would undoubtedly have been
commemorated as a major victory that helped crush a colonial rebellion.
The battle is a wonderful illustration of a successful flanking
action, masked by feints in the center and opposite flank, almost a mirror
image of Brandywine (in reverse and with a river barrier), a year later.
There's a lot of material out there on the battle, in various
libraries, archives, and private collections on the subject. Why the
neglect? Perhaps, in part for the same reason that the Bicentennial of
the Revolution wasn't a greater success than it was: lack of popular
interest.
Perhaps acessibility of materials plays a role, and professional
rivalries and jealousies among and between the historically-minded may
also play a role, as might the desire to conceal facts or to preserve them
as transmitted habitually. Intentionality is another question entirely.
All of these are just guesses. But, they may contain a germ of
truth.
Mark Rothenberg
Suffolk Cooperative Library System
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Beth Harpaz wrote:
> Hi. I'm a reporter for The Associated Press in New York City. I am
> writing a story about the Battle of Brooklyn (1776), focusing on the
> question of why it virtually disappeared from popular histories of the
> American Revolution and our collective lore about colonial times, as well
> as how history gets written -- why some things are left out and other
> things
> are emphasized. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with theories on
> this...
>
>
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 16:42:35 1996
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 16:44:51 -0900 (PDT)
From: Jim Corsaro <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Brooklyn, historians, etc.
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Having spent the better part of 3 decades dealing with historians,
students, genealogists and numerous other categories of researchers
using sources and reading a good deal of history as well, it appears
to me that both Mr. Wright and Mr. Terrie (perhaps our finest
historian of the Adirondacks) have good points. I think that most
archivists and historians have assisted amateur and professional
historians who have slapped together something from others' research
with only a cursory look at sources and we have also seen people from
the same two categories who have spent days, weeks or months poring
over manuscripts, maps, old pamphlets and many other sources and who
then write superb local history or national history as the case may
be. It is not the category of historian, but the individual that
counts here.
Besides, everyone knows that the really important Battle of Brooklyn
didn't occur in 1776. It happened over and over again in the Forties and
Fifties as the Dodgers battled the Giants and Yankees in Ebbets Field
and, unfortunately, for this fan, usually lost!
jim corsaro
James Corsaro
Associate Librarian
Manuscripts and Special Collections
New York State Library
Empire State Plaza
Albany, New York 12230
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
(518) 474-5963
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 19:02:12 1996
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Beth Harpaz asked fr theories on why the Battle of Brooklyn is so little
remembered.
1. Aside from the fact that it was a defeat, it also lacks other redeeming
virtues, such as snappy quotes ("Don't fire until you see the whites of their
eyes!"), dramatic visual images (Washington crossing the Delaware), or
comfortable stereotypes (Bunker Hill symbolized tradition-bound redcoats vs
pragmatic patriots; at Brooklyn, Howe wisely refrained from a frontal
assualt).
2. It was a battle of maneuver, which is always harder to visualize and
explain than a frontal assault (Bunker Hill) or encirclement (Yorktown).
3. I think a lot of popular awareness comes from what is taught in school
history. The battle did get covered in many 19th century textbooks--I think
it just got crowded out for the reasons above. There's more history every
year, and something has to go.
On the subject of what gets into school texts, you might want to consult
Frances Fitzgerald, AMERICA REVISED. There's also a book A CONSPIRACY OF
GOOD INTENTIONS by Harriet Tyson (if I remember correctly). Among other
things, it has a fascinating anecdote on how an obscure Revolutionary War
battle in North Carolina DID make it into many textbooks.
Larry Lashway
Olympia WA
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 21:54:03 1996
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Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 20:00:45 -0700
From: Anne and Lester Hendrix <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Alkato Co., NY??
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Neither Spafford's 1824 Gazetteer nor French's 1860 Gazetteer (for which my index
includes an "old place names" section) list anything similar. I suspect a Linotype
operator may have typoed Albany. 1) The number of letters is the same. 2) I do not know
the Linotype keyboard but in the traditional California type case layout, after which
the Linotype keyboard is patterned, "t" is under "n" and "o" is next to "y". ("k" is not
near "b" however.)
There are many other local place names in New York that are possible typographical
errors. There's always handwriting to consider.
Does the obit offer any other clues?
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 22:04:56 1996
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Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 21:56:38 -0700
From: "Anne M. Derousie" <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Re: Alkato Co., NY??
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Vivian Karen Bush wrote:
>
> A patron in the FHC today had a 1930 Michigan obituary which gave a birth
> place as Alkato County, New York (1842). I suspect that Alkato is really a
> town or village but cannot find it in my gazetteer and home. Has anyone
> heard of it?
>
> Karen Bush
> PO Box 1393
> Page, AZ 86040
>
> [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
>
> *HICKMAN* *BAILEY* *PERKINS* *CRABB* *ROGERS* *LAUB* *McGINNIS* *FRAZIER*
> *CLAPP* *HAWES* *BENNETT* *DARNLEY* *WARREN* *TURNER* *LIVINGSTON* *GEE*
> *SEARL* *ALEXANDER* *ANDREWS* *LYON* *RICKER* *FRANCISCO or CISCO*
> *DOUGLASS* *HARRIS* *LUDDINGTON* *BUSH* *THORNE* *MOYES* *EVANS*
> *ARMITSTEAD* *CLARK* *DANIELS* *ISBELL* *ADAMS* *STANTON* *EWERS*Karen,
How about Cato, NY?
A.M.Derousie
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Jun 6 22:19:41 1996
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From: [log in to unmask]
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Subject: Re: No Subject
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I think the reason is simply that Brooklyn in 1776 was an American
defeat. Another example is the Battle of Fort Montgomery in October 1777,
overshadowed by the American victory at Saratoga. But Fort Montgomery was a
brutal, bloody, savage battle in which the truly heroic American defenders of
the fort simply refused to surrender and were overrun and overwhelmed by the
British. For five hours, I think, there was a constant roar of artillery and
incessant musket fire, until a final last, desperate, and successful charge
by the British at dusk. It was a terrific battle, but no one ever reads
about it.
From [log in to unmask] Fri Jun 7 11:03:24 1996
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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 11:06:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael D. Bathrick" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Typology of Vernacular Architecture of New York
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Does anyone know if a typology of New York Vernacular Architecture
exists, especially for Dutch and German buildings? I see lots of them
for English, PA Dutch and Scotch/Irish derived structures, but have not
yet run across one for the NY Dutch/Palatine population.
Mike Bathriick
[log in to unmask]
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