The story Trish recounts needs to be located within the bureaucratic contest of the U.S. in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. There was no "register with the state" in the US comparable to that in Eastern or Southern Europe. What ever happened during the processing at Ellis Island or other ports of entry, the immigrants exited with no documentation which could have recorded a "new name." Once settled in the country, there could be encounters with the State where a name would be recorded, responding to a census taker, registering children at school, etc. While names could be brutalized in these records, the process again did not leave the immigrant with a document recording a new name. Other activities might result is this thought. Applying for naturalization, or for a business license would involve the immigrant in an official process which would impose upon him or her an "official" name. The decisions concerning change or continuity in a family name were complex and taken over a period of time. In the work I have done, there is no single common point where they were made. John W. Briggs Education and History Chair, Cultural Foundations of Education Coordinator, Social Studies Education Programs 363 Huntington Hall Syracuse University Syracuse, NY 13244 315-446-9077 Fax 315-443-9218 >>> [log in to unmask] 5/9/2005 12:40:21 PM >>> It is my understanding that many European Jews had no fixed patronymics. They were using the traditional system of using the given name of his/her father: Samuel ben Jacob or Sarah bar Jabob would be the children of Jacob. Samuel's son would be "ben Samuel." Napoleon as part of his decrees across the empire in the early nineteenth-century imposed a system of fixed patronymics. Poland instituted official fixed state names in 1821 and Russia in 1844. People chose a range of arbitrary names--their village, natural objects (rose, stone, mountain) for registration with the state, while thinking of the traditional naming system as their real name. Therefore, several generations later, they arrived at Ellis Island, once more they had to formally register with the state, and chose some other symbolic name--for instance, "Eagle" or willingly Anglicized their former state name. Their "real" name remained the same. Cheers, Trish