On Newtown, check Jessica Kross's dissertation.
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 1 10:08:08 1996
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From: James Folts <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Newtown cont.
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T.J. Davis correctly notes that there is a good social and economic study
of colonial Newtown (Queens County) by Jessica Kross. Her PhD.
thesis (University of Michigan) was published as The Evolution of an
American Town: Newtown, New York, 1642-1775 (Temple University
Press, 1983).
Jim Folts
Co-Moderator, NYHIST-L
New York State Archives
Cultural Education Center Room 11D40
Albany, NY 12230 USA
E-mail [log in to unmask]
Phone (518) 474-8955; Fax (518) 473-9985
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 1 13:22:29 1996
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 13:18:16 -0500
To: [log in to unmask]
From: [log in to unmask] (Susan Walski)
Subject: Re: Newtown cont.
content-length: 474
>T.J. Davis correctly notes that there is a good social and economic study
>of colonial Newtown (Queens County) by Jessica Kross. Her PhD.
>thesis (University of Michigan) was published as The Evolution of an
>American Town: Newtown, New York, 1642-1775 (Temple University
>Press, 1983).
>
The Annals of Newtown is a classic on early life in Newtown.
Susan
Susan Walski
Genealogy: The only hobby where finding dead people can excite you!
http://www.eideti.com/~swalski
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 1 15:28:05 1996
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Jessica Kross's dissertaion is now a book.
On Thu, 31 Oct 1996, TJ Davis wrote:
>
> On Newtown, check Jessica Kross's dissertation.
>
>
From [log in to unmask] Tue Nov 5 00:28:16 1996
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:18:32 -0500
To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
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From: David Minor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: NYNY 1710-1714
content-length: 1305
<bold>1710</bold>
City - German-born John Peter Zenger arrives. He will apprentice to the
city's official printer William Bradford. ** Jacobus Van Cortlandt is
appointed mayor.
State - Governor Robert Hunter brings 3,000 Palantine Germans to the
Hudson Valley, to produce naval stores.
<bold>1711</bold>
City - Caleb Heathcote is appointed mayor; serves to 1714. ** Zenger
goes to work as an apprentice in printer William Bradford's 81 Pearl
Street shop.
London - Parliament establishes a postal system for British colonies,
with a deputy postmaster in New York City.
<bold>1712</bold>
Apr 12 - Newly-arrived Afican Slaves revolt, killing eight whites and
injuring over twenty others.
April - Nineteen blacks are burned or hanged after the slave revolt.
Six others are recaptured. Legislation will be passed later in the year
to tighten controls.
State - Settlers in the Mohawk Valley found the village of Schoharie.
<bold>1713</bold>
Religion - John Wise publishes <italic>Churches Quarrel
Espoused</italic>, justifying Congregationalism, in New York City.
<bold>1714</bold>
City - John Johnson is appointed mayor, serves to 1719.
Theater - <italic>Androboros</italic>, the first play written and
printed in the colonies, is published by Governor Hunter.
From [log in to unmask] Tue Nov 5 14:52:19 1996
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:51:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Densmore <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Red Jacket Speeches, 1828-1829
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The Seneca orator Red Jacket made a trip to see President J.Q. Adams in
Washington in 1828, and a tript to see President Jackson in 1829. On both
of these occasions, he delivered "long talks" at theaters in New York and
elsewhere. I am looking for accounts of these speeches. In particular, I
would like to find any information about the speeches given in 1829 after
he met with (or attempted to meet with) the newly-elected President,
Andrew Jackson. William L. Stone's 1841 biography of Red Jacket, pp.
389-90, does describe Red Jacket's appearance in Albany after seeing
Jackson-- Red Jacket contrasted him unfavorably with Washington-- but
doesn't report what was actually said.
1828: Red Jacket leaves Buffalo in February, meetings with J.Q. Adams in
March, and appears at the Masonic Hall in New York City on April 5. He may
have made other appearances.
1829: Red Jacket appeared at the Athenium in Albany, Jan. 5-6; at Tammany
Hall in NYC on Jan. 14; at the American Museum, NYC, Jan. 22-23; appears
at the Masonic Hall, Philadelphia, Jan. 26; he sees
J.Q. Adams on Feb. 1; appears at the Masonic Hall, Washington, D.C., on
Feb. 18; appears at the American Museum in NYC, March 3-7; at Peale's
Museum, NYC, March 9; apparently goes to Boston, then returns to New York
City: appears at Peale's Museum, March 27; appears in NYC, April 20?;
appears at the New York State Museum, Albany, April 21.
I've looked at newspaper indexes for Buffalo, Geneva and Rochester, and
pieced together much of the above chronology from advertisements in the
Albany, New York, Philadelphia and Washingtion papers available on film at
UB. If anyone has access to other newspaper indexes for 1828-29, or could
inform me where they might be found, I would appreciate it.
I do have a reference to an article in the Commercial Advertiser of Feb.
16, 1830-- after RJ's death-- that might have mentions of the 1828 and/or
1829 speeches. Unfortunately, the reference didn't say which Commercial
Advertiser. I suspect it refers to the New-York Commercial Advertiser
which I am trying to obtain on microfilm. Does anyone have ready access to
that paper?
Christopher Densmore
University Archives
University at Buffalo
420 Capen Hall
Box 602200
Buffalo, New York 14260-2200
Voice: 716-645-2916
Fax: 716-645-3714
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Wed Nov 6 08:46:13 1996
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:36:42 +0700
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From: [log in to unmask] (Jean Martin)
Subject: Salt mining
content-length: 715
Is it on that list that I saw a discussion about salt mining in New York
State lately? If so I would be interested in the original question for I
received a message from other people who are starting a research on a
similar subject in a Canadian university. Thanks.
Jean Martin, Ph.D.
490, Desaulniers #1
St-Lambert (Quebec)
CANADA
J4P 1N6
Tel:514-671-4209
[log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Nov 7 09:14:02 1996
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Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 09:09:35 EST
From: Daniel Martin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Walmart's
To: [log in to unmask]
content-length: 402
The local news in the Capital District reported last night that Walmart's has
backed out of building another very much needed store in Leeds, NY in the
Catskill Mountain region. Construction was halted on the building when the
remains of a Mohican were found. Good thing it didn't happen in downtown
Albany, Mayor Jennings probably would have ground them up and sold them for
fertilizer.
Dan Martin
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 8 09:19:39 1996
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Subject: Failed Inquiry -Forwarded
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I am sending this as an attachment. If any of you don't receive the
attachment, let me know and I will repost some other way.
And subscribers, we can consider it a real compliment when one of the
most famed names in the field of NY history asks our help.
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From: Milton M Klein <[log in to unmask]>
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I sent this inquiry some time ago and never received any replies,
which leads me to believe it never went out. Can you try sending it
again? The message is as follows:
Can anyone provide information or leads on how and when the term
"Empire State" came to be applied to New York?
Thanks.
From [log in to unmask] Thu Nov 7 22:57:03 1996
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To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask] (Densmore)
Subject: Re: Red Jacket Speeches, 1828-1829
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 04:53:25 GMT
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Who is Red Jacket? Sounds interesting.
----
Margaret Downs Glendinning
[log in to unmask]
CHAMBERLIN DELANO MOORE STREET SKINNER:MA/VT/CN>NY>MI 1619-NOW
FISHER: VA>PA>OH>MI 1800-1960
DOWNS STAAS:NY 1690-now
> The Seneca orator Red Jacket made a trip to see President J.Q. Adams in
> Washington in 1828, and a tript to see President Jackson in 1829. On both
> of these occasions, he delivered "long talks" at theaters in New York and
> elsewhere. I am looking for accounts of these speeches. In particular, I
> would like to find any information about the speeches given in 1829 after
> he met with (or attempted to meet with) the newly-elected President,
> Andrew Jackson. William L. Stone's 1841 biography of Red Jacket, pp.
> 389-90, does describe Red Jacket's appearance in Albany after seeing
> Jackson-- Red Jacket contrasted him unfavorably with Washington-- but
> doesn't report what was actually said.
>
> 1828: Red Jacket leaves Buffalo in February, meetings with J.Q. Adams in
> March, and appears at the Masonic Hall in New York City on April 5. He may
> have made other appearances.
>
> 1829: Red Jacket appeared at the Athenium in Albany, Jan. 5-6; at Tammany
> Hall in NYC on Jan. 14; at the American Museum, NYC, Jan. 22-23; appears
> at the Masonic Hall, Philadelphia, Jan. 26; he sees
> J.Q. Adams on Feb. 1; appears at the Masonic Hall, Washington, D.C., on
> Feb. 18; appears at the American Museum in NYC, March 3-7; at Peale's
> Museum, NYC, March 9; apparently goes to Boston, then returns to New York
> City: appears at Peale's Museum, March 27; appears in NYC, April 20?;
> appears at the New York State Museum, Albany, April 21.
>
> I've looked at newspaper indexes for Buffalo, Geneva and Rochester, and
> pieced together much of the above chronology from advertisements in the
> Albany, New York, Philadelphia and Washingtion papers available on film at
> UB. If anyone has access to other newspaper indexes for 1828-29, or could
> inform me where they might be found, I would appreciate it.
>
> I do have a reference to an article in the Commercial Advertiser of Feb.
> 16, 1830-- after RJ's death-- that might have mentions of the 1828 and/or
> 1829 speeches. Unfortunately, the reference didn't say which Commercial
> Advertiser. I suspect it refers to the New-York Commercial Advertiser
> which I am trying to obtain on microfilm. Does anyone have ready access to
> that paper?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Christopher Densmore
> University Archives
> University at Buffalo
> 420 Capen Hall
> Box 602200
> Buffalo, New York 14260-2200
>
> Voice: 716-645-2916
> Fax: 716-645-3714
> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 8 13:28:47 1996
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Subject: Re: Failed Inquiry -Forwarded -Forwarded
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From: "Joseph F. Meany" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: NYS Museum
To: William Evans <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:58:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Failed Inquiry -Forwarded
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According to legend the term "Empire State" originated with a quote
from George Washington: "Surely this is the seat of empire,"
expressed to Governor George Clinton during the post
revolutionary war tour the two took of New York State. As near as
anyone can tell, the view-shed that inspired Washington was the Bronx
River Valley somewhere in Bronx County.
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 8 11:30:36 1996
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Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:24:48 -0800
From: "David G. Nutter, AICP" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Organization: NUTTER Associates Inc.
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William Evans wrote:
>
> I am sending this as an attachment. If any of you don't receive the
> attachment, let me know and I will repost some other way.
>
> And subscribers, we can consider it a real compliment when one of the
> most famed names in the field of NY history asks our help.
> Received: from localhost by utkux.utcc.utk.edu (5.x/2.8s-UTK.UTCC)
> id AA15824; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:50:45 -0500
> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:50:44 -0500 (EST)
> From: Milton M Klein <[log in to unmask]>
> X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Failed Inquiry
> Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I sent this inquiry some time ago and never received any replies,
> which leads me to believe it never went out. Can you try sending it
> again? The message is as follows:
> Can anyone provide information or leads on how and when the term
> "Empire State" came to be applied to New York?
> Thanks.
I believe George Washington got the ball rolling during his travels to
Upstate New York in, I think, the 1790,s. I believe he stayed at
Saratoga Springs, then moved westward along the Mohawk, getting as far,
at least, as Little Falls. He is said to have been in a very
geopolitical frame of mind, thinking about the future expansion of the
country once the Revolution had been cleared away. At Little Falls,
right in the heart of the Mohawk Gap, I think, it became clear that
there, along the water corridor of the Mohawk River lay a major gateway
to the West (which, of course, was realized with a major role by a
family he knew well, the Clintons). Here it was that I think that he
referred to New York State as a "Pathway to Empire". I believe that is
the genesis. One interesting point - I don't think he ever referred to
New York State as an "Empire", rather as a "Pathway to Empire". Quite a
difference.
Dave Nutter
--
David G. Nutter Rochester, NY 14618-4136
Nutter Associates Inc. Tel 1-716-271-7940
Community Planners Fax 1-716-244-6836
240 Allens Creek Road [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 8 12:54:12 1996
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:53:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Densmore <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Who is Red Jacket?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Since a couple of people asked, Red Jacket (Sagoyewatha), was a Seneca
orator, born ca. 1758 (though sources differ, giving dates from 1750-1759)
in the Finger Lakes (probably Canoga on Cayuga Lake, but again there are
other claimants to the honor), who was often the speaker for the Six
Nations and the Seneca Nation in various councils, from the begining of
the Revolution through the 1820s. He's probably the principal figure on
the Six Nation side at the Treaty of Canandaigua in 1794. His fame among
white people lies primarily in two speeches he made rejecting Christian
missionaries: his speech to Rev. Cram in 1805, and his speech to Rev.
Alexander in 1811, which claim that the Indians are religious and moral
people (and if Christianity is so good, why don't the missionaries try it
on the whites who seem to be in need of some reformation), defends the
right of Indians to be separate, and to retain their lands. In the 1820s,
Red Jacket was the principal figure in the "Pagan Party" among the Seneca,
and was opposed by the "Christian Party" who attempted to depose him. Red
Jacket's 1805 and 1811 were widely reprinted in the 19th century, and are
arguably the most widely known and reprinted pieces of Native American
literature. He was very well known.
One of the interesting things about Red Jacket is that he was not a
warrior. He opposed Iroquois and Seneca involvement in the Revolution,
though he did participate went the Seneca joined the British (and was
widely regarded as a coward), though strongly supporting the right of
Indians to retain their land, he almost invariably was on the side of
peace. His stature within the Six Nations and the Seneca rested on his
skill as a speaker.
Since Red Jacket was so well known and admired, people were interested in
him. Unfortunately, much of what is known about his personal career (as
opposed to his actions in councils and treaties) is based on information
collected late in Red Jacket's life, by whites who had little
understanding of Native Americans or had some special interest for of
their own (such as being financially concerned with the land company that
wanted to buy the Seneca reservations).
Christopher Densmore
University Archives
University at Buffalo
420 Capen Hall
Box 602200
Buffalo, New York 14260-2200
Voice: 716-645-2916
Fax: 716-645-3714
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 8 14:27:29 1996
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:24:42 -0500
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From: [log in to unmask] (Herb Phelps)
Subject: Re: Salt mining
content-length: 994
Jean: There was a discussion quite awhile ago as I recall, but I do not
remember the question that was asked. However here is a URL you can check
for the Salt Museum in NY. <http://www.cny.com/Fun/Museums/saltmusm.html>
Regards, Herb Phelps
[log in to unmask]
>Is it on that list that I saw a discussion about salt mining in New York
>State lately? If so I would be interested in the original question for I
>received a message from other people who are starting a research on a
>similar subject in a Canadian university. Thanks.
>
> Jean Martin, Ph.D.
> 490, Desaulniers #1
> St-Lambert (Quebec)
> CANADA
> J4P 1N6
> Tel:514-671-4209
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
From [log in to unmask] Mon Nov 11 20:18:41 1996
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Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 20:15:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Barry J Fennell <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: Barry J Fennell <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Barry J Fennell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Who is Red Jacket?
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This is what makes this list so interesting and so worthwhile. Just
think how many facets of local history we would never know. Keep up the
good work. We transplants enjoy hearing about it.
This was a good one.
Barry J. Fennell
Miami, FL 33158-1045
email: [log in to unmask]
On Fri, 8 Nov 1996, Densmore wrote:
>
> Since a couple of people asked, Red Jacket (Sagoyewatha), was a Seneca
> orator, born ca. 1758 (though sources differ, giving dates from 1750-1759)
> in the Finger Lakes (probably Canoga on Cayuga Lake, but again there are
> other claimants to the honor), who was often the speaker for the Six
> Nations and the Seneca Nation in various councils, from the begining of
> the Revolution through the 1820s. He's probably the principal figure on
> the Six Nation side at the Treaty of Canandaigua in 1794. His fame among
> white people lies primarily in two speeches he made rejecting Christian
> missionaries: his speech to Rev. Cram in 1805, and his speech to Rev.
> Alexander in 1811, which claim that the Indians are religious and moral
> people (and if Christianity is so good, why don't the missionaries try it
> on the whites who seem to be in need of some reformation), defends the
> right of Indians to be separate, and to retain their lands. In the 1820s,
> Red Jacket was the principal figure in the "Pagan Party" among the Seneca,
> and was opposed by the "Christian Party" who attempted to depose him. Red
> Jacket's 1805 and 1811 were widely reprinted in the 19th century, and are
> arguably the most widely known and reprinted pieces of Native American
> literature. He was very well known.
>
> One of the interesting things about Red Jacket is that he was not a
> warrior. He opposed Iroquois and Seneca involvement in the Revolution,
> though he did participate went the Seneca joined the British (and was
> widely regarded as a coward), though strongly supporting the right of
> Indians to retain their land, he almost invariably was on the side of
> peace. His stature within the Six Nations and the Seneca rested on his
> skill as a speaker.
>
> Since Red Jacket was so well known and admired, people were interested in
> him. Unfortunately, much of what is known about his personal career (as
> opposed to his actions in councils and treaties) is based on information
> collected late in Red Jacket's life, by whites who had little
> understanding of Native Americans or had some special interest for of
> their own (such as being financially concerned with the land company that
> wanted to buy the Seneca reservations).
>
> Christopher Densmore
> University Archives
> University at Buffalo
> 420 Capen Hall
> Box 602200
> Buffalo, New York 14260-2200
>
> Voice: 716-645-2916
> Fax: 716-645-3714
> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
>
From [log in to unmask] Tue Nov 12 17:02:48 1996
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:59:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Milton M Klein <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Empire State Query--Thanks
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Thanks to David Nutter and Joseph Meany for their responses to my
inquiry as to the origin of the term "Empire State." I am afraid this is
as hard a nut to crack as the origin of the term "Big Apple" for NYC.
There are a good many hints as to an answer but precious little that is
definitive. If I get a reliable answer, I will inform readers on this
list.
Milton M. Klein, University of Tennessee, Knoxville
From [log in to unmask] Wed Nov 13 15:40:41 1996
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From: "Mark A. Mastromarino" <[log in to unmask]>
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: GW and "Seat of Empire" quotation
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 15:37:51 -0500 (EST)
Cc: [log in to unmask]
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Friends:
In response to the recent thread on the origins of the
nickname "The Empire State," let me add the following:
On 10 April 1785, George Washington sent as an
enclosure to New York City mayor James Duane his reply to an
earlier address that Duane had sent Washington on 16 Dec.
1784. Washington's reply "To the Honble the Mayor, Recorder,
Alderman [sic] & Commonalty of the City of New York" ends with
the paragraph: "I pray that Heaven may bestow its choicest
blessings on your City--That the devastations of War, in which
you found it, may soon be without a trace--That a well
regulated & benificial [sic] Commerce may enrichen your
Citizens. And that, your State (at present the Seat of the
Empire) may set such examples of Wisdom & liberality, as shall
have a tendency to strengthen & give permanency to the Union at
home--and credit & respectability to it abroad. The
accomplsihment whereof is a remaining wish, & the primary
object of all my desires" (original ALS, New York Historical Society:
George and Martha Washington Papers; draft and letter-book copy
in Library of Congress: Washington Papers).
The above-mentioned letters and addresses are published
in W. W. Abbot, ed., The Papers of George Washington:
Confederation Series, Vol. 2, July 1784-May 1785
(Charlottesville: University Press of Virginia, 1992), 187-90,
485-88, quote on 487-88.
Sincerely,
Mark A. Mastromarino
Assistant Editor,
The Papers of George Washington
Alderman 504
The University of Virginia
Charlottesville, VA 22903-2498
Phone: (804) 924-3569 Fax: (804) 982-4529
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Nov 14 09:47:33 1996
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Subject: Researching NY History through the Internet
content-length: 1912
The Library of Congress has recently made available a gateway to the
Research Libraries Information Network (RLIN)'s Archives and
Manuscripts Database. This is part of their National Union Catalog of
Manuscripts Collections (NUCMC) Webpage. It provides users with
free access to the RLIN AMC file, where interested researchers can find
many collections relating to New York. The entire Historical
Documents Inventory (HDI) is available in that file, along with the
holdings of many other repositories who have records from or relating to
New York State, such as Yale, Harvard, Stanford, University of
Michigan, and many other large research libraries.
For those unfamiliar with the HDI, it was a fifteen year project
undertaken by Cornell University, and partially funded by the State
Archives and Records Administration, which surveyed over 1500
publicly accessible repositories throughout New York, resulting in over
35,000 descriptions of records holdings in those repositories. It is a
wonderful resource for those studying New York History.
All of this is accessible through the NUCMC Website at:
http://lcweb.loc.gov/coll/nucmc. Once there, click on either the NUCMC
cataloging icon or the utilities icon. No account number or password will
be necessary to search the RLIN AMC file.
For more information concerning the gateway or the NUCMC program,
contact the NUCMC Team, Library of Congress, 101 Independence
Avenue, SE, Washington, DC 20540-4375 (telephone 202-707-7954)
Email: [log in to unmask]
For more information on the HDI, printed copies of guides to individual
counties, or for assistance and information in how to access historical
records relating to New York state, contact the Documentary Heritage
Program, Room 9B38 Cultural Education Center, Albany, NY 12230,
518-474-4372, or email me directly at [log in to unmask]
Do take a look at this--it is a wonderful tool!
From [log in to unmask] Thu Nov 14 10:28:22 1996
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 10:22:25 -0800
From: "David G. Nutter, AICP" <[log in to unmask]>
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Mark A. Mastromarino wrote:
>
> Friends:
>
> In response to the recent thread on the origins of the
> nickname "The Empire State," let me add the following:
>
> On 10 April 1785, George Washington sent as an
> enclosure to New York City mayor James Duane his reply to an
> earlier address that Duane had sent Washington on 16 Dec.
> 1784. Washington's reply "To the Honble the Mayor, Recorder,
> Alderman [sic] & Commonalty of the City of New York" ends with
> the paragraph: "I pray that Heaven may bestow its choicest
> blessings on your City--That the devastations of War, in which
> you found it, may soon be without a trace--That a well
> regulated & benificial [sic] Commerce may enrichen your
> Citizens. And that, your State (at present the Seat of the
> Empire) may set such examples of Wisdom & liberality, as shall
> have a tendency to strengthen & give permanency to the Union at
> home--and credit & respectability to it abroad. The
> accomplsihment whereof is a remaining wish, & the primary
> object of all my desires" (original ALS, New York Historical Society:
> George and Martha Washington Papers; draft and letter-book copy
> in Library of Congress: Washington Papers).
>
> The above-mentioned letters and addresses are published
> in W. W. Abbot, ed., The Papers of George Washington:
> Confederation Series, Vol. 2, July 1784-May 1785
> (Charlottesville: University Press of Virginia, 1992), 187-90,
> 485-88, quote on 487-88.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mark A. Mastromarino
> Assistant Editor,
> The Papers of George Washington
> Alderman 504
> The University of Virginia
> Charlottesville, VA 22903-2498
>
> Phone: (804) 924-3569 Fax: (804) 982-4529
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
Given the dynamic of New York State then and now and always, I think the
fact that the "Empire" observation is linked to New York City makes all
the sense. I wonder if there was a whole prior body of discussion of
(the American) "Empire" that George Washington was keying off of.
Dave Nutter
--
David G. Nutter Rochester, NY 14618-4136
Nutter Associates Inc. Tel 1-716-271-7940
Community Planners Fax 1-716-244-6836
240 Allens Creek Road [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Thu Nov 14 14:29:05 1996
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:25:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Milton M Klein <[log in to unmask]>
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Mark Mastromarino's and David Nutter's comments on this subject
are interesting but still do not help us pinpoint the origin of this
phrase. David Ellis wrote an essay on the "Rise of the Empire State,
1790-1820," which appeared in NEW YORK HISTORY, LVI (1975), 5-27, in which
he says that by the latter date, New York "proudly bore the title of
Empire State," but he doesn't tell us how the term originated. I am
still in the dark as to the answer to this question. Any other
suggestions out there?
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 15 14:37:25 1996
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From: James Folts <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Empire State cont.
content-length: 2209
It appears that New York's nickname, the "Empire State," originated in the
early 19th century and became firmly established by the 1890s.
The concluding chapter of volume six of the History of New York State
(1934), edited by State Historian Alexander C. Flick, is entitled "New York
Becomes the Empire State." The authors of this chapter, James G. Riggs
and Ralph M. Faust, both educators from Oswego, reviewed the
establishment of the state's boundaries and the growth of New York's
population and wealth during the first half of 19th century. They note (on
p. 361) that "as early as 1819, New York had been referred to as the
Empire State, when it wrested the leadership in point of population from
Virginia" (no source given). They also quote the New York Spectator of
Jan. 8, 1822, "The internal concerns of New York extensive as it is in its
territory, and with new resources unfolding themselves to public view,
appear like those of a mighty and flourishing empire."
A search of the New York State Library's on-line catalog turns up
several book titles embodying the phrase "Empire State." In 1849 one R.
L. Christopher compiled an "Empire State Book of Practical Forms" (legal
boilerplate) for use by justices of the peace, businessmen, farmers, and
others. In 1872 a Mrs. S. S. Colt authored and published a traveller's
guide entitled New York State Illustrated; or, The Tourist's Guide through
the Empire State.
Two popular histories of New York published in the 1880s gave the term
"Empire State" further currency. Ellis H. Roberts wrote a book called
New York: The Planting and the Growth of the Empire State (1887). And
Benson J. Lossing, already well known for his illustrated histories of the
War of the Revolution and the War of 1812, authored The Empire State:
A Compendious History of the Commonwealth of New York (1888).
I suspect that the nickname became engrained in public consciousness
when the New York Central Railroad inaugurated its fast daytime train,
the "Empire State Express," between New York City and Buffalo in 1891.
The Empire State Building, completed in 1931, gave the nickname a 20th
century flare.
Jim Folts
Co-Moderator, NYHIST-L
New York State Archives
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 15 17:25:02 1996
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:24:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Rohit T Aggarwala <[log in to unmask]>
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To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Re. the "Empire State"
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One question related to the "Empire State" issue is whether the state's
nickname came before the city's. Although it has been completely replaced
by the "Big Apple," in the 19th century the main nickname for New York
City was the "Empire City." I suppose it's possible that that name came
first -- based presumably on New York's commercial ascendancy -- and it
was extended to the entire state. The process by which both city and
state came to have the same nickname would shed an interesting light on
the relationship between New York City and State. As a graduate student
interested in that very relationship, I'd be grateful for any thoughts.
Rit Aggarwala
Columbia University
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 15 19:02:58 1996
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Subject: Re: Empire State cont.
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Wow - nice post by Jim Folts.
Footnote to a footnote - "Empire City" as a term for commercial enterprises
was in use in New York City in the 1860's and probably before.
"Empire State - " listings appear in the New York City directory in 1884
(Empire State Telephone Co., 195 Broadway - the Western Union Building). An
Empire State Bank was established in 1890, and in 1896-1897 the bank built
the very ordinary "Empire State Building" at 640 Broadway (southeast corner
of Bleecker).
The bank went out of business soon after, but their building (and its name)
survived. The year 1929 was the last year it was so recognized in the New
York City directory; in 1930 the Empire State Building at 34th and Fifth
superseded it, although I cannot determine the mechanism by which that took
place.
Christopher Gray
Office for Metropolitan History
From [log in to unmask] Sat Nov 16 11:22:07 1996
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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 11:21:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Barbara Beverley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Re. the "Empire State"
To: [log in to unmask]
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The Library of the Department of Economic Development (aka Empire
State Development) receives requests for an answer to this question
several times each year. We've never been able to track down a better
answer than George Washington's letter.
I would be most interested in any research that sheds more light on
the subject.
Barbara S. Beverley Phone: (518) 474-5664
Director of Library Services FAX: (518) 474-1512
Empire State Development
One Commerce Plaza Internet: [log in to unmask]
Albany, NY 12245 Internet: [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Mon Nov 18 13:14:08 1996
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 13:13:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Densmore <[log in to unmask]>
To: NYHIST-L <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Indian Missionary Manuscripts? John Benham
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A researcher in Canada is interested in John A. Benham (Sept. 20, 1806 -
May 1, 1868), who was a missionary among the Saugeen Ojibwa. According to
Simpson's CYCLOPAEDIA OF METHODISM, Benham at his death had two
manuscripts ready for publication, one on "Mission Life in West Africa"
and one on "Indian Missions." Neither appears to have been published. Any
idea where the originals might be? Benham was born in Rome, New York, and
died in Nowfield (that may be a typo), New York.
Christopher Densmore
University Archives
University at Buffalo
420 Capen Hall
Box 602200
Buffalo, New York 14260-2200
Voice: 716-645-2916
Fax: 716-645-3714
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Mon Nov 18 14:43:51 1996
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 14:42:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Corsaro <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: NYHIST-L <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Indian Missionary Manuscripts? John Benham
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Chris:
Nowfield is probably Newfield which is in Tompkins County.
Don't know where the Benham mss. is, and it is not in our collection.
I will check around, however. The Methodist Collection
at Drew University in Madison, NJ may be a possibility, by the way.
jim c.
James Corsaro
Associate Librarian
Manuscripts and Special Collections
New York State Library
Empire State Plaza
Albany, New York 12230
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
(518) 474-5963
On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Densmore wrote:
> A researcher in Canada is interested in John A. Benham (Sept. 20, 1806 -
> May 1, 1868), who was a missionary among the Saugeen Ojibwa. According to
> Simpson's CYCLOPAEDIA OF METHODISM, Benham at his death had two
> manuscripts ready for publication, one on "Mission Life in West Africa"
> and one on "Indian Missions." Neither appears to have been published. Any
> idea where the originals might be? Benham was born in Rome, New York, and
> died in Nowfield (that may be a typo), New York.
>
>
> Christopher Densmore
> University Archives
> University at Buffalo
> 420 Capen Hall
> Box 602200
> Buffalo, New York 14260-2200
>
> Voice: 716-645-2916
> Fax: 716-645-3714
> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
From [log in to unmask] Sat Nov 23 16:08:36 1996
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:09:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Anna Mae Maday <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Trade goods (fwd)
Message-Id: <[log in to unmask]>
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Anna Mae Maday
Eddy Historical Collection
Hoyt Public Library
505 Janes Ave
Saginaw MI 48607
[log in to unmask]
517-755-9827
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:58:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Anna Mae Maday <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Trade goods
I have been studying the published historic accounts for references to
European contact, commerce, travels in the Saginaw Valley prior to 1819.
As part of that research I have become aware of references in the Wisconsin
Historical Collection and the New York Colonial Documents that deal with
the French accounts.
Now I am searching for English accounts which may be in the published
historic collections of North America. In particular I am interested
in obtaining any references to a historic medallion commemorating
"William Penn's Treaty with the Indians" . Since this was found
in association with an historic burial site in the Saginaw area, I am
wondering if there are any references to such findings in the New York
or Pennsylvania literature. This may possibly be a Quaker Society of
Friends medal 1757. We have similar evidence of archaeological findings
in our area and written historical accounts of a 1725 Louis XV medal
commemorating the marriage. I have had some leads from those in the
Historical Archaeology community, and am trying to pursue all
avenues of information.
Thanks.
Anna Mae Maday
Eddy Historical Collection
Hoyt Public Library
505 Janes Ave
Saginaw MI 48607
[log in to unmask]
517-755-9827
From [log in to unmask] Mon Nov 25 12:02:56 1996
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From: "mike hodder" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 11:47:15
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Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Michael Hodder's Registered PMMail 1.53 For OS/2
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Subject: Re: Trade goods (fwd)
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Re:
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:58:23 -0500 (EST)
>From: Anna Mae Maday <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Trade goods
<SNIP>
> I am interested in obtaining any references to a historic medallion commemorating
>"William Penn's Treaty with the Indians" . Since this was found
>in association with an historic burial site in the Saginaw area, I am
>wondering if there are any references to such findings in the New York
>or Pennsylvania literature. This may possibly be a Quaker Society of
>Friends medal 1757.
Assuming the medal you are interested in has a bust of George II on the obverse and a
white and an Indian seated at a fire on the reverse, then in numismatic circles this medal
is known as the "Duffield Medal". It was designed and the dies engraved by Philadelphia
silversmith Edward Duffield. The medal was commissioned by the Society of Friends and
was probably struck by silversmith Joseph Richardson, Sr. in 1757. These medals were
made for distribution following the accomplishment of the Treaty of Easton. There are very
few surviving original medals known. The originals all have an edge ornamented by a leaf
design. Circa 1795-1813, Joseph Richardson, Jr. was offering restrikes made in silver,
probably at the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia. These have plain edges and are also very rare.
Richardson left the dies with the Mint, which subsequently made more restikes from the
original dies, in silver and copper. The dies by then were deteriorating. In 1875, new,
copy, dies were made by the Mint.
I know of no controlled and documented finds of this sort of medal, but my search is
confined to numismatic materials and just touches the archaeological literature.
There is another medal which is commonally called the William Penn medal. It shows
Penn's bust on the obverse and Penn and an Indian shaking hands on the reverse.
Although dated 1681, it was actually struck in England circa 1750-1800.
> We have similar evidence of archaeological findings
>in our area and written historical accounts of a 1725 Louis XV medal
>commemorating the marriage. I have had some leads from those in the
>Historical Archaeology community, and am trying to pursue all
>avenues of information.
I don't know of a Louis XV medal dated 1725 honoring his marriage that was distributed to
Indians. M. de Bourgmont mentions a medal under that date, I know, but the medals
distributed to Indians at that time appear to have been of two types.
First, the Felicitas Domus Augustae medals of Louis XIV, which bore Louis XV's bust at
the top of the reverse. These are attested to in a 1723 Quebec letter and 12 were sent to
de Beauharnois in 1732 when he asked for medals for the Indians. In fact, these were still
being distributed 40-50 years later by the French to the Omaha, as noted by Jean Baptiste
Truteau in his journal December, 1794.
Second, the Honos et Virtus medal of Louis XV, with his bust on the obverse and Honor
and Virtue standing on the reverse. These latter bore no date. Two are known with Louis'
name erased and George III engraved in its place, one of which is actually dated 1775.
I'd be very interested in knowing the details of any archaeological finds of medals coming
from known or arguable Indian contexts.
Mike Hodder
[log in to unmask]
ANA Historian
Associate Editor, The Colonial Newsletter
Contributing Editor, The Numismatist
From [log in to unmask] Mon Nov 25 13:47:59 1996
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 13:45:08 -0500
To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
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From: David Minor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: NYNY 1735-1739
content-length: 1882
<bold><fontfamily><param>Geneva</param><bigger>1735</bigger></fontfamily></b=
old><fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>
Jan 17 =09
New York City businessman Theophylact Bache is born in Settle, England.
=20
Aug 4 =09
John Peter Zenger, defended by Philadelphia lawyer Andrew Hamilton, is
acquitted in a libel case in New York City, establishing the tradition
of Freedom of the Press in America. The popular party toasts Hamilton
that night.
Aug 5 =09
Zenger is discharged. Hamilton sails for Philadelphia, honored by
salutes from ships in the harbor.
September=09
New York's Common Council votes Andrew Hamilton the freedom of the city
- a seal in a gold box.
City - The first almshouse is built. ** Paul Richard is appointed
mayor.
State - Ganiodaio (Handsome Lake), half-brother of Cornplanter, is
born. ** A gold mine in the Catskills is inspected for a claimant
rumored to be colonial governor William Cosby.
<smaller>
</smaller><bold><bigger>1736</bigger></bold><smaller>
</smaller>City - John Peter Zenger publishes an account of his 1734
trial for seditious libel.
<smaller>
</smaller><bold><bigger>1737</bigger></bold><smaller>
</smaller> City - Johannes Klemm, a Moravian organ builder, builds the
first American-built organ, for Trinity Church. ** Irish military
officer William Johnson arrives from England.
<smaller>
</smaller><bold><bigger>1738</bigger></bold><smaller>
</smaller>State - Sir William Johnson settles in the Mohawk Valley.
New Jersey - Lewis Morris is appointed royal governor, ending a 36-year
joint governorship under New York.
<bold><bigger>1739</bigger></bold><smaller>
</smaller>City - Former shipper, slave trader and alderman John Cruger
is appointed mayor, remains for five one-year terms.
</fontfamily>
David Minor
Eagles Byte Historical Research
Rochester, New York
716 264-0423
http://home.eznet.net/~dminor
From [log in to unmask] Mon Nov 25 20:27:27 1996
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:27:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Densmore <[log in to unmask]>
To: mike hodder <[log in to unmask]>
cc: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trade goods (fwd)
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> > I am interested in obtaining any references to a historic
medallion commemorating
> >"William Penn's Treaty with the Indians" . Since this was found
> >in association with an historic burial site in the Saginaw area, I am
> >wondering if there are any references to such findings in the New York
> >or Pennsylvania literature. This may possibly be a Quaker Society of
> >Friends medal 1757.
>
Here's a bit in addition to Mike Hodder's very useful post. The Quaker
"Friendly Association for Regaining and Preserving Peace with the Indians
by Pacific Measures" was organized at Philadelphia in 1756 and in 1757 had
a medal stuck for distribution to Indian chiefs. According to a brief
article in Wilson Armistead, SELECT MISCELLANIES... OF THE SOCIETY OF
FRIENDS, Vol. 1 (1852), 126-31,
"The die was engraved in Philadelphia by Edward Duffield, at a cost of L
15 [that's 15 pounds] to the Society, and was executed in silver by Joseph
Richardson, a Friend, and a member of the Association."
This article includes an engraving of the design. The central design show
a seated Indian on the left, pointing upward, a fire in the middle, and a
seated figure on a stump on the right (presumably William Penn) holding
a peace pipe, to his right and appearing to bend over him is a tree. Below
the figures is the date "1757" and surrounding the scene is the motto,
"LET US LOOK TO THE MOST HIGH WHO BLESSED OUR FATHERS WITH PEACE."
This is not the same depiction of Penn's Treaty as portrayed in the famous
Benjamin West painting or in some of Edward Hick's verions of the
Peaceable Kingdom.
The records of the Friendly Association are at Haverford College (or was
it Swarthmore?) near Philadelphia, and have been microfilmed along with
the later records of the Indian Committee of Philadelphia Yearly Meeting
of the Society of Friends.
Though it doesn't help in this particular case, Francis Paul Prucha,
INDIAN PEACE MEDALS IN AMERICAN HISTORY (State Hist. Society of Wisconsin,
1971) has good illustrations of the post-colonial United States Peace
Medals. Interestingly, the George Washington Medals (such as that given to
Red Jacket and now at the Buffalo Historical Society, and the one (perhaps
owned by Farmers Brother?) at the Ontario Historical Society) were made by
Joseph Richardson, who I think is the son of the Richardson who made the
1757 medal.
The records of the Friendly Association might shed some light on the
initial distribution of the medal. Incidently, the Friendly Association
was not an "official" Quaker body in the sense of being created by a
Quaker meeting (as was the later Indian Committee) though it was
certainly organized and led by prominent Philadelphia Quakers.
Christopher Densmore
University Archives
University at Buffalo
420 Capen Hall
Box 602200
Buffalo, New York 14260-2200
Voice: 716-645-2916
Fax: 716-645-3714
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
From [log in to unmask] Tue Nov 26 16:57:23 1996
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:57:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Anna Mae Maday <[log in to unmask]>
To: mike hodder <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trade goods (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Thanks to Mike Hodder for the info on the William Penn medallion.
If you would like more information about the Louis XV marriage
medallion it can be found in Robert C. Mainfort Jr. dissertation
THE FLETCHER SITE CEMETERY (20BY28) BAY COUNTY, MICHIGAN: A
STUDY IN THE SOCIAL DYNAMICS OF THE CONTACT PERIOD or in his
book published a bit later. We have this in our collection
and can supply further info if you wish to contact me at the
library.
Anna Mae Maday
Eddy Historical & Genealogy Collection
Hoyt Public Library
505 Janes Ave
Saginaw MI 48607
[log in to unmask]
517-755-9827
On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, mike hodder wrote:
> Re:
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:58:23 -0500 (EST)
> >From: Anna Mae Maday <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Trade goods
>
> <SNIP>
> > I am interested in obtaining any references to a historic medallion commemorating
> >"William Penn's Treaty with the Indians" . Since this was found
> >in association with an historic burial site in the Saginaw area, I am
> >wondering if there are any references to such findings in the New York
> >or Pennsylvania literature. This may possibly be a Quaker Society of
> >Friends medal 1757.
>
> Assuming the medal you are interested in has a bust of George II on the obverse and a
> white and an Indian seated at a fire on the reverse, then in numismatic circles this medal
> is known as the "Duffield Medal". It was designed and the dies engraved by Philadelphia
> silversmith Edward Duffield. The medal was commissioned by the Society of Friends and
> was probably struck by silversmith Joseph Richardson, Sr. in 1757. These medals were
> made for distribution following the accomplishment of the Treaty of Easton. There are very
> few surviving original medals known. The originals all have an edge ornamented by a leaf
> design. Circa 1795-1813, Joseph Richardson, Jr. was offering restrikes made in silver,
> probably at the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia. These have plain edges and are also very rare.
> Richardson left the dies with the Mint, which subsequently made more restikes from the
> original dies, in silver and copper. The dies by then were deteriorating. In 1875, new,
> copy, dies were made by the Mint.
>
> I know of no controlled and documented finds of this sort of medal, but my search is
> confined to numismatic materials and just touches the archaeological literature.
>
> There is another medal which is commonally called the William Penn medal. It shows
> Penn's bust on the obverse and Penn and an Indian shaking hands on the reverse.
> Although dated 1681, it was actually struck in England circa 1750-1800.
>
> > We have similar evidence of archaeological findings
> >in our area and written historical accounts of a 1725 Louis XV medal
> >commemorating the marriage. I have had some leads from those in the
> >Historical Archaeology community, and am trying to pursue all
> >avenues of information.
>
> I don't know of a Louis XV medal dated 1725 honoring his marriage that was distributed to
> Indians. M. de Bourgmont mentions a medal under that date, I know, but the medals
> distributed to Indians at that time appear to have been of two types.
>
> First, the Felicitas Domus Augustae medals of Louis XIV, which bore Louis XV's bust at
> the top of the reverse. These are attested to in a 1723 Quebec letter and 12 were sent to
> de Beauharnois in 1732 when he asked for medals for the Indians. In fact, these were still
> being distributed 40-50 years later by the French to the Omaha, as noted by Jean Baptiste
> Truteau in his journal December, 1794.
>
> Second, the Honos et Virtus medal of Louis XV, with his bust on the obverse and Honor
> and Virtue standing on the reverse. These latter bore no date. Two are known with Louis'
> name erased and George III engraved in its place, one of which is actually dated 1775.
>
> I'd be very interested in knowing the details of any archaeological finds of medals coming
> from known or arguable Indian contexts.
>
>
> Mike Hodder
> [log in to unmask]
> ANA Historian
> Associate Editor, The Colonial Newsletter
> Contributing Editor, The Numismatist
>
>
>
From [log in to unmask] Wed Nov 27 20:44:28 1996
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 20:45:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Anna Mae Maday <[log in to unmask]>
To: Densmore <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: mike hodder <[log in to unmask]>,
"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trade goods (fwd)
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Thanks to Christopher Densmore for additional information
about the William Penn medallions. Since I don't have much
of a description to work with, it may be impossible to
determine which one was found here in Saginaw, unless we
can find a written record pointing to a possible recipient.
Anna Mae Maday
Eddy Historical & Genealogy Collection
Hoyt Public Library
505 Janes Ave
Saginaw MI 48607
[log in to unmask]
517-755-9827
From [log in to unmask] Wed Nov 27 22:15:39 1996
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:15:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Deborah Clover <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Barn advertising
Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]>
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I'm working on a project documenting barn murals in western New York. This
type of public art is unusual, as murals are generally a more urban art
form. Anyway, in thinking about possible roots of this art, I'm wondering
about the barn advertising, such as the Mail Pouch Tobacco signs. Don't
know anything about this, however, and would appreciate hearing from
anyone who does. When did the large barn advertising "murals" start? How
long did this last as an advertising form? Who painted the signs? etc.
Really, anything anyone can tell me about this would be appreciated. And,
just in case any of you are familiar with any current murals on barns,
farm stands, or other rural settings, please let me know about those as
well. Thanks.
Deborah Clover
Ithaca, NY
From [log in to unmask] Fri Nov 29 11:06:07 1996
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 11:05:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Deborah Clover <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Barn advertising (fwd)
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Apologies for the double posting, but I changed my email name (was cba,
now [log in to unmask]), and seem to have lost my mailing list
subscriptions in the process. Am now back on the list, but don't know if
anyone had a response to my questions in the past few days. If so, could
you please forward to me directly. Thanks.
Deborah Clover
Ithaca, NY
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:15:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Deborah Clover <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Barn advertising
I'm working on a project documenting barn murals in western New York. This
type of public art is unusual, as murals are generally a more urban art
form. Anyway, in thinking about possible roots of this art, I'm wondering
about the barn advertising, such as the Mail Pouch Tobacco signs. Don't
know anything about this, however, and would appreciate hearing from
anyone who does. When did the large barn advertising "murals" start? How
long did this last as an advertising form? Who painted the signs? etc.
Really, anything anyone can tell me about this would be appreciated. And,
just in case any of you are familiar with any current murals on barns,
farm stands, or other rural settings, please let me know about those as
well. Thanks.
Deborah Clover
Ithaca, NY
|
